Skyrim Complaints

First I will say that the world of skyrim is truly massive and wonder of design. However, with so much time and effort put into creating such a vast and varied world I wonder why other aspects seem so mediocre.

Combat is iffy at best, the graphics are so so, and the menu system on PCs is a nightmare. This is all easily forgiven. What seems inexcusable to me are the amount of game breaking exploits and balancing issues.

Certain perks and skill trees are absolutely worthless. Dual casting as a Mage is completely broken. The only upside to it is the stun perk. Dual casting spells cost three times the mana. In almost all circumstances simply casting two one handed versions of a spell is a patently better strategy.

Heavy armor dominates all other forms of armor. The perks in the heavy armor tree are immense. Being able to negate all the negatives of heavy armor and having the ability to enchant it for magic bonuses makes all other forms of armor nonsensical.

The ability to train with followers and then take the gold back makes leveling a joke. The ability to craft 300 iron daggers, enchant and then sell them breaks the economy.

The level scaling system, though not as game breaking as in oblivion, still punishes you for power leveling. I'm sorry, but I like min maxing. How come at level 15 bandits still pose the same amount of challenge they did at level 2? If they wanted to scale certain areas they should have made the enemies which spawn a different type. Instead of random bandit encounters, now you have random troll encounters. Simply making the same type of monster 15 times stronger ruins immersion. Level scaling = still broken.

The list of character design flaws goes on and on, add to it as you see fit. In game where it obvious how many hours were put into designing the world itself it baffles me that such careless was used in designing character progression. People love their characters as much as the game world. Is it too much to ask to have a great game world and a character progression system that is not completely broken?

I love exploring the world and seeing what is around the next turn. Too bad I never feel challenged in the game, and when I do it feels arbitrarily imposed on me because of level scaling and not because I am fighting a powerful boss. Character progression is shoddy and I never know when I am gimping my character or making him more of what I envision. I think these various character balancing issues could have been remedy with a minimal amount of play testing, and for a team which spent tens of thousands of man hours on designing a game world a little effort on making character progression feel more fluid is not too much to ask.

If you want perfection in a game, you won't be getting it. In any game for that matter. As for the character progression, I'm having no issues with it. And many I speak with about the game are not either. So...maybe it's just you?

I'm kind pleased with the improvements made in Skyrim that annoyed me in Oblivion.

And your graphics comment amuses me. How are they 'so-so'? I'm assuming you are playing this on the PC which I would also assume would have superior graphical capabilities to my 360. So why is it that I'm amazed with how the game looks? And the 360 even has a rendering issue from installing the game and I'm still impressed.

A game of this size is bound to have issues and flaws that grind your gears. However, you need to put yourself in the developers shoes. This is by no means an easy task to undertake. I'm impressed overall, and I acknowledge the issues. As I said no game is perfect, if a game could be perfect, and the developers did not learn from their mistakes, wouldn't they just stop improving games altogether?

Even on a PC the graphics are great. If you compare Skyrim graphics to textures from Witcher 2, you will be disappointed. Why? Skyrim is an open world game, the textures aren't going to be photorealistic.

Anyway, my two complaints are as follows. The destruction magic branch of the game is set up badly. The second would be the way the Havok engine handles water.

I know I am barking up the wrong tree on this forum, but I know it is not just me. If we forgive all other flaws, including writing off the bizarre level scaling which they had ample time to perfect, what about the perk system?

The perk system feels absolutely rushed and not play tested. Again, dual casting for mages is near worthless, except for the game changing stun lock perk. Heavy armor and blocking are absolute necessities if you want to play on the highest difficulties. Enchanting and smithing break the game not only in terms of balance but also economy. Why do they allow you to enchant heavy armor to the point where two schools of magic are completely free to cast? I have only played the game 20 hours or so and I found these flaws, why didn't the devs?

I know, these are little things. Taken together though they make it almost impossible not to create a character without some game breaking exploit. You have to literally go out of your way not to take advantage of the flawed character development, and that really hurts immersion immensely.

@Dzylon

Really? Your issue with how the water works? That's a cosmetic issue, who cares? I say the issues are the broken quests that people can't complete or not being able to get rid of an item that's for a quest that's already been completed. Not how the water looks.... -_-

JerseyTheJester said:

Really? Your issue with how the water works? That's a cosmetic issue, who cares?

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It's nothing big. I don't mind it too much. This is the complaint thread, though, and I have every right to say I don't like the way streams function.

JerseyTheJester said:

I say the issues are the broken quests that people can't complete or not being able to get rid of an item that's for a quest that's already been completed. Not how the water looks.... -_-

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Those are bugs. They'll be fixed soon. This unusual gem sitting in my inventory is starting to piss me off, but that's about it.

Glitches and bugs can still be complaints. And are more worthy of being complaints then simply how the game looks. Seriously, I don't understand complaints about graphics. If you want to see real looking water, go outside.

You are complaining about game breaking capabilities in a single player game where literally the only person who can affect your gameplay at all is you. I don't understand why this is an issue. I'm not saying they should attempt to put in game breaking exploits or even ignore them, but come on. You're just looking for a reason to complain when you say that the economy CAN be broken, but you're the only one capable of breaking it in your game. The "exploits" that you are talking about make the game enjoyable for other more casual players.

I can understand frustrations with the combat system, or the way magic works, or even meticulously minute flaws with the AMAZING graphics that this open world game has, whether or not they have any grounds because you feel that your game has been affected. Just try to be a little understanding. This game could do a lot wrong and still not bring me down, and it hasn't even gotten close.

Ebony Knight said:

You are complaining about game breaking capabilities in a single player game where literally the only person who can affect your gameplay at all is you. I don't understand why this is an issue. I'm not saying they should attempt to put in game breaking exploits or even ignore them, but come on. You're just looking for a reason to complain when you say that the economy CAN be broken, but you're the only one capable of breaking it in your game. The "exploits" that you are talking about make the game enjoyable for other more casual players.

I can understand frustrations with the combat system, or the way magic works, or even meticulously minute flaws with the AMAZING graphics that this open world game has, whether or not they have any grounds because you feel that your game has been affected. Just try to be a little understanding. This game could do a lot wrong and still not bring me down, and it hasn't even gotten close.

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^This. Pure and simple. I sense frustration in the OP, and now he feels he needs to nitpick.

hmm... I think the useless perk isn't much of an issue, really. I don't expect every level-ups to have a game-changing perk raised up. I think it's mostly fine as it is. They aren't all completely useless. But the entire perk tree does bother me... They are all relatively linear, usually with just two paths that just converge in the end. I guess I was hoping for complexity in leveling a little bit too much. But then again, mods.

I find level-scaling pretty reasonable. I actually have no problem with it at all. It's a good challenge and it's fun to have weaker guys to utterly destroy from time to time.

To each his own. I guess I was hoping for a game which presented a challenge like Dark Souls. This is more of sandbox game. Still, I wish I could try my hardest to make the best character possible and not completely break the game. I don't think open ended worlds and balanced character progression have to be mutually exclusive. As is, I'll just have to try to make an awesome character while cherry picking which game breakers I think are out of line.

hexperiment said:

But then again, mods.

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^this + patience = everything a PC player could possibly ask for. Morrowind was great to start with...made even better by the community.

Time4Pizza said:

To each his own. I guess I was hoping for a game which presented a challenge like Dark Souls. This is more of sandbox game. Still, I wish I could try my hardest to make the best character possible and not completely break the game. I don't think open ended worlds and balanced character progression have to be mutually exclusive. As is, I'll just have to try to make an awesome character while cherry picking which game breakers I think are out of line.

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Of course it is. You didn't realize that upon purchase?

I agree what's been said before, what you're trying to tell us in some cases is a problem you yourself have created and are trying to pass it off as a game flaw. For example: "The ability to craft 300 iron daggers, enchant and then sell them breaks the economy." I'm sure everyone realizes this is an exploit in the game, and the simple answer to conquering this problem is simply not to do it. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. "How come at level 15 bandits still pose the same amount of challenge they did at level 2?" This may have something to do with this: "Heavy armor dominates all other forms of armor. The perks in the heavy armor tree are immense. Being able to negate all the negatives of heavy armor and having the ability to enchant it for magic bonuses makes all other forms of armor nonsensical." When you are walking around some of the best armour that has been enchanted to hell and back, what do you expect? Wear light armour or no armour at all if you're looking for a challenge. I know this sounds like me having a go, but I'm not, I'm just trying to point out to you why I disagree with some of your points, it's not a personal attack aimed at you.

Todd Howard said he was gonna take away spell crafting to "keep the magic in magic". But all I see now is the dagger I made on my second character hitting for 200 on a base melee attack and 6000 on a sneak attack... Incinerate only hits for what, 200 damage when over cast? Maybe 400 if they are on fire? Why is a dagger hitting for the same amount as an overcharged spell Todd?

Why is magic once again being plops on. Oblivion ruined magic casting and now Skyrim has made it completely non usable unless you want to be completely underpowered.

Two-Hand, one-hand, bows, and daggers all have an enchanting skill to improve the damage. Why does magic get the shaft? Is it because we have a 5 second cast time on our useless ritual spells? No wait that doesn't make sense... It must be because they do so much damage! But wait, spamming incinerate in 1 hand does more DPS than any ritual spell, and brandishing a dagger does more than both. I'm confused. Why am I casting spells again? It must be because it's a fantasy world and Bethesda couldn't figure out how to have a world without magic so they made it horrible... AGAIN.

And please people don't respond with immersion comments. I don't care what you say. If your character is garbage your not going to be immersed.

^ Grumpy mage is grumpy ^

Combat is iffy at best, the graphics are so so..

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You press FIRE and you attack, hold FIRE and you strong attack. You want more? Go play Street Fighter. Graphics are spectacular, anything more and only the rich could play it.

Dual casting spells cost three times the mana. In almost all circumstances simply casting two one handed versions of a spell is a patently better strategy.

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The price of convenience

Heavy armor dominates all other forms of armor.

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A tank shouldn't be better than a Humvee? Power versus mobility - Instead of spending your points to up the armor, put them into agility and magic.

The ability to craft 300 iron daggers, enchant and then sell them breaks the economy.

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Don't you have to obtain Soul Gems to enchant something? Those are expensive unless you steal them.. Selling stolen goods breaks the economy.

Simply making the same type of monster 15 times stronger ruins immersion.

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Because heaven forbid they should train themselves! But by that time you should have stun and paralyze spells.

The list of character design flaws goes on and on, add to it as you see fit.

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I didn't know pressing B at the name change screen would leave the name at "Prisoner" instead of bringing me back to the creation screen! I assumed based on Fallout 3 and Daggerfall that I'd have a second chance to change my stats! Oh well, gonna make all the other 'Prisoner's feel better about their status I guess .

If you really want a game-breaking flaw, how about the ability to walk around the frost-barriers on top of the mountain by using the horse.. But then again this is a heck-ova fun thing to do when you're bored!

- Mike

I personally (see that, personally not stating ) do not have a problem with any of the issues found. My current character does not smith (not enough perks) and wears Shroud Light Armor (I refuse to wear the best light armor as from an RP perspective it would not fit my assassin running around in glass for Dragon armor).

Re: Heavy Armor -> Well this is heavy armor...it is supposed to be the best?

Re: Hard Enemies -> Not sure what you mean. At lvl 25 I am still meeting the weak bandits (i.e the ones from the start). I am seeing more harder ones (outlaws, marauders etc) and this is good, 1 hitting weak enemies gets old fast. Also these guys are around from the start of the game as well.

Destruction being under Powered: I have heard others mention this (in relation to melee weapons) but have only tried myself at lower levels where I think it is perfectly fine. I think (in my opinion) it should not be what is stronger/weaker but does it get the job done? also with Magic there is more than destruction so a pure mage char can call on illusion and conjuration magic to cause havoc as well as call on alteration/restoration for protection. Is it as effective as the heavy armor route? Probably not but the point is you CAN play this style effectivly. As mentioned this is a single player role playing game and it gives the choice to the player to play the type of char they want and still be able to beat the game.

Re: Breaking economy via creating 300 daggers: My solution...do not do it. The only person who can do this is yourself...so do not do it and problem is solved Also many other ways to make money in the game.

Enchants: Cannot say as I do not level up enchanting but again only player can enchant so if one feels enchants are to powerful, create weaker ones?

Anyways my opinions. All are welcome to theres and as long as it generates a healthy debate that is good (as long as this does not start an insult slinging contest!)

Hail Sithis!

Would just like to make a few other points (playing a bit of devil's advocate here)

Regarding Heavy Armor vs Light I do think it is a bit silly that (at least according to perk description) you can reduce the movement penalty for wearing heavy armor as that kinda makes using Light Armor a mute point (as one of the primary benefits is the speed bonus as well as better sneak). This is somewhat off-set by the fact you have to take (imo) 2 useless perks to get it though. Would have been better (imo) to only reduce weight but not speed penalty with this perk.

Regarding Shops: I find it slightly annoying that the only thing I spend money on is Houses and spells and perhaps crafting re-agents. A problem in many TES games (imo) is that there is no point buying gear in shops as the enchanted stuff is usually lower level (for example I am using Orc weps and enchanted stuff is still Iron) making it not worth purchasing. Also I do not use magic weapons until late game because you have to recharge them after a few hits making them pointless (imo). I prefer unenchated weapons so I do not have to stress about soul gems etc. Can understand the mechanic, just do not agree with it.

Re: Perk Tree. I have to say I really enjoy it! I think this is much better than the leveling system in older TES games and gives more breath/customisation options. Could be improved sure but I do like it as it allows more customization instead of just raising a skill to 100.

You state that you're a power-gamer (minaxer, whatever you want to call it) yet you lament the fact you can exploit the hell out of the game.

here's the thing.

You don't have to wear heavy armour. You don't have to take every perk in heavy armour if you do. You don't have to craft 300 daggers and then enchant them and sell them. You choose to.

My character wears light armour, I'm level 25 and i've yet to take a single perk in light armour. Further to that... so far he has worn only three types of light armour... studded, leather and nightingale.
He doesn't enchant anything.
He doesn't craft armour or weapons.
He doesn't use shouts.
He never uses magic.
He doesn't carry anything I dont think he could reasonably carry... which means he's a hell of a lot poorer than he would be if I took every pc of loot I found.

Thsi pretty much sums up how I play every character... they make choices based on what THEY would do, were they "real". All the complaints you have stem from power-gaming.

If Bethesda ensured min/maxing was impossible... you'd complain that they were not giving you enough freedom. If they give you too much freedom... you exploit it and say the game is broken. The game is what you make it. It's a single player sandbox game... the only one capable of breaking it is you.

Edit: I have to address this "Instead of random bandit encounters, now you have random troll encounters. " as a solution to levelling. This is ridiculous. Bandits make sense when taken in perspective with the game world... If I walk into a fort,I expect to find bandits, mage covens, thieves... but a fort full of trolls? Really? This would make the game better?