Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Jeremius]

Why would any mage want to get involved at all? All they should really care about are their spell books.

Mages have been involved in many wars, the Empire's Shadow Legion and the Imperial Battle College are some examples of Mages being made into powerful soldiers, healers, tacticians.

I pray you remember their valour and their service in the name of Empire and forever hold high the name of Battlemage. - Letter to the Grand Marshall of the Imperial Legion.

What do you consider a "Mage"?

People like Farengar, and the mages at the college. IF they are in the legion, they are not mages, just Imperial soldiers who happen to use magic primarily.

My reason for mage characters I play being anti-war is simply because I do not put political affiliations onto them. They only care about themselves and their magic.

 

[DrunkenMage]

People like Farengar, and the mages at the college. IF they are in the legion, they are not mages, just Imperial soldiers who happen to use magic primarily.

Battlemages study at a College, they research and experiment with destruction magic. Dawnstar's Court Wizard was a Legion Battlemage.

They are Mages. They just serve in the Military also.

 

[Jeremius]

People like Farengar, and the mages at the college. IF they are in the legion, they are not mages, just Imperial soldiers who happen to use magic primarily.

Battlemages study at a College, they research and experiment with destruction magic. Dawnstar's Court Wizard was a Legion Battlemage.

They are Mages. They just serve in the Military also.

Soldiers, not true mages. for the true mage, Magic>politics or job.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Why would any mage want to get involved at all? All they should really care about are their spell books.

Mages have been involved in many wars, the Empire's Shadow Legion and the Imperial Battle College are some examples of Mages being made into powerful soldiers, healers, tacticians.

I pray you remember their valour and their service in the name of Empire and forever hold high the name of Battlemage. - Letter to the Grand Marshall of the Imperial Legion.

What do you consider a "Mage"?

People like Farengar, and the mages at the college. IF they are in the legion, they are not mages, just Imperial soldiers who happen to use magic primarily.

My reason for mage characters I play being anti-war is simply because I do not put political affiliations onto them. They only care about themselves and their magic.

Yeah what DM said. Now there are scrolls plp can use who lack the aptitude for using magic. However, I think you're way off on this one. Because mages from all over Tamriel visit or visited the College, even Thalmor.

Again, there are many different types of mages, even Farengar? admits this during your intro discussion about magic. I enjoyed all of his dialogue btw. Anyways, a mage could be anything, could be someone whose skilled just in Illusion yet is a Thief or Politician by trade. Could be a Battlemage.

Magic by itself, is a profession that is sometimes shared with other professions, like on that link I showed you earlier. Not everyone who uses magic is a mage and a mage is not necessarily skilled in all forms of magic.

 

[Jeremius]

Mages have been involved in many wars, the Empire's Shadow Legion and the Imperial Battle College are some examples of Mages being made into powerful soldiers, healers, tacticians.

I pray you remember their valour and their service in the name of Empire and forever hold high the name of Battlemage. - Letter to the Grand Marshall of the Imperial Legion.

What do you consider a "Mage"?

People like Farengar, and the mages at the college. IF they are in the legion, they are not mages, just Imperial soldiers who happen to use magic primarily.

My reason for mage characters I play being anti-war is simply because I do not put political affiliations onto them. They only care about themselves and their magic.

Yeah what DM said. Now there are scrolls plp can use who lack the aptitude for using magic. However, I think you're way off on this one. Because mages from all over Tamriel visit or visited the College, even Thalmor.

Again, there are many different types of mages, even Farengar? admits this during your intro discussion about magic. I enjoyed all of his dialogue btw. Anyways, a mage could be anything, could be someone whose skilled just in Illusion yet is a Thief or Politician by trade. Could be a Battlemage.

Magic by itself, is a profession that is sometimes shared with other professions, like on that link I showed you earlier. Not everyone who uses magic is a mage and a mage is not necessarily skilled in all forms of magic.

It was not mages in general, but MY mages that are under that system. You all can have your own opinions, but MY mages avoid the war at all costs.

 

[Jeremius]

Battlemages study at a College, they research and experiment with destruction magic. Dawnstar's Court Wizard was a Legion Battlemage.

They are Mages. They just serve in the Military also.

Soldiers, not true mages. for the true mage, Magic>politics or job.

Not so. Where did this come from?

Magic == Politics or Magic = Job because it's for some you can't have Politics or Job without Magic. Oblivion demonstrates this. Some are good in Speechcraft and others are better with Illusion which makes up for their lack of Speechcraft.

Your argument here is full of utopian bias and is not founded in lore or logic.

Let me prove it to you.

A Dunmer knows Destruction well. He becomes a soldier. When in a tight spot, he uses his powers to save his life and that of his comrades. Being a soldier does not stop him from being a mage or from using his magical talents.

Proof by Contradiction failed.

Again, MY system is about MY characters. Not a GENERAL stance. Will revise to be clearer, since people are mistaking what I am saying as a general opinion:

• If MY characters are crusader-types, they would favor the Empire.
• If MY characters are stealthy, the rebels
• If MY characters are mages, they avoid the war just because.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Soldiers, not true mages. for the true mage, Magic>politics or job.

They are Mages, they're just skilled in the School of Destruction and serve the Empire.

For the "true Mage" Magic>politics or job? How many true Mages have you met? House Telvanni have politics, the Mages Guild had it's own politics. Powerful Mages have been at the side of Emperors in the position of Imperial Battlemage, some have been Prime Ministers in Cyrodiil or Elder Council Members. Even at the side of Skyrim's High Kings where the Arch-Mage used to lead armies and provide counsel.

 

[Jeremius]

Soldiers, not true mages. for the true mage, Magic>politics or job.

They are Mages, they're just skilled in the School of Destruction and serve the Empire.

For the "true Mage" Magic>politics or job? How many true Mages have you met? House Telvanni have politics, the Mages Guild had it's own politics. Powerful Mages have been at the side of Emperors in the position of Imperial Battlemage, some have been Prime Ministers in Cyrodiil or Elder Council Members. Even at the side of Skyrim's High Kings where the Arch-Mage used to lead armies and provide counsel.

I will say one more time. MY characters fall under MY system, and that means they are as much true, or even truer, mages than soldier-"mages".

 

[DrunkenMage]

It should be mentioned your example of Whiterun's Court Wizard as a true Mage is a bit of a contradiction since the Court Wizard is a political position within a Jarl's Court. They serve the Jarl and the Hold, provide counsel etc.

 

[Jeremius]

It should be mentioned your example of Whiterun's Court Wizard as a true Mage is a bit of a contradiction since the Court Wizard is a political position within a Jarl's Court. They serve the Jarl and the Hold, provide counsel etc.

BUT they do not support either faction in the CIVIL WAR. All court Wizards care less for the "who rules Skyrim" issue.

And one FINAL time. My first post was about MY MAGE characters. They would not join the Civil War because they would not see a reason to. My plans are for my characters, only. IF my characters are crusaders, they favor the Empire because of Crusader law and order. My stealth character favor freedom, so favor the rebels. And my mage character favor neither side of the war, because they feel no need to get involved in the war.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I will say one more time. MY characters fall under MY system, and that means they are as much true, or even truer, mages than soldier-"mages".

I get your opinion, but you do understand that a Mage is a Mage no matter how they use their ability. A Battlemage isn't less of a Mage than someone who studies Alteration or Illusion.

Battlemages are a mix of Soldier/Scholar. Destruction Magic's purpose is to be used as defence or offence...

This reminds me of the book found in game "Response to Bero's Speech". About a very narrow view on Battlemages, being countered. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Response_to_Bero's_Speech

 

[Jeremius]

I will say one more time. MY characters fall under MY system, and that means they are as much true, or even truer, mages than soldier-"mages".

I get your opinion, but you do understand that a Mage is a Mage no matter how they use their ability. A Battlemage isn't less of a Mage than someone who studies Alteration or Illusion.

Battlemages are a mix of Soldier/Scholar. Destruction Magic's purpose is to be used as defence or offence...

This reminds me of the book found in game "Response to Bero's Speech". About a very narrow view on Battlemages, being countered. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Response_to_Bero's_Speech

They are less mages. Battlemages use armor, and true mages never use physical armor. Battlemage is a different skillset from actual mages, no matter the overlap. Just because someone uses magic, does not mean that person is a mage.

 

[DrunkenMage]

They are less mages. Battlemages use armor, and true mages never use physical armor. Battlemage is a different skillset from actual mages, no matter the overlap.

Where does it say "true Mages" never use physical armor? There isn't a dress code to being a Mage... We meet a 4000 year old extremely powerful Mage in Morrowind and he's wearing Daedric Armor.

 

[Jeremius]

They are less mages. Battlemages use armor, and true mages never use physical armor. Battlemage is a different skillset from actual mages, no matter the overlap.

Where does it say "true Mages" never use physical armor? There isn't a dress code to being a Mage... We meet a 4000 year old extremely powerful Mage in Morrowind and he's wearing Daedric Armor.

The classes of TES list mages and Battlemages as different classes. Mages do not have armor as a skill they are trained in, Some mages have training, but they are battlemages or spellswords, not mages, who focus almost solely on magic skills.

Why lump them all together when Mage is not the same as a healer, or a battlemage, or even a nightblade? Magic-user=/=mage. Mage is a TYPE of magic user sure, but not all magic users are mages.

 

[Jeremius]

@DrunkenMage: you want my definition of Mage? http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Mage#Mage and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mage_(class)#Mage are what I view mages as.

 

[Lewsean]

Stormcloak attitude and the way you're drawing your conclusions is exactly why I'm not a Stormcloak. Furthermore, it can't be Hypocritical if Gen Tullius has the same views. You guys do not own Freedom.

I'm a true son of the Empire and my beliefs are not yours to question.

Yes it is. "Oh it's not the Empire, it's Titus Mede, but here's a picture of an Imperial soldier surrounded by Stormcloak bodies". If you REALLY believes what Titus Mede did was wrong, you wouldn't support the Empire in the Civil War that enforces the very thing you deem wrong. Hypocritical.

Fallacy. That's what YOU think. Your personal bias against the Empire is blinding you to other possibilities, which is why even if you win, you still lose.

Also, Legate Rikke AND Gen Tullius might disagree with you, as they both are Imperial Leaders that respect the Emperor, however their ideals run contrary to the Emperor and are not unlike Stormcloak ideals. Yet even in doing so, they are still loyal to the Empire.

You also completely missed what the scene in that picture represents, which I'm not surprised. Stormcloaks can't pursue alternative options because theirs is a charismatic cause and Ulfric sets the stage for them. Therfore, it must be your way or no one's way at all because Ulfric won't have it. Do you see this? I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here however Ulfric has made it very clear from his first speech in Windhelm, to his comments during Season Unending, even the cart ride in the very beginning. The Bear of Markarth won't take 'no' for an answer.

Fortunately, Imperials have options. Sometimes you gots to think like a man and deal wit it. Hahahahaha

What do Tullius and Rikke have to do with you? I'm replying to YOUR comment and your blatant hypocritical attitude, nothing to do with either of them. But of course I get a typical Imperial reply that stems as far away from the original topic as possible.

 

[Raijin]

I don't think it is sad, they're not seeking help from the Stormcloaks or Empire. Going to Windhelm seems logical if you were heading into Morrowind, no point hiding in Solitude when the way into Morrowind is on the other side of the map.

Stormcloaks can't protect them from the Thalmor, they use assets of different races. Why else do you think they're running to Morrowind?

Do you honestly believe that the Empire can protect those against the Thalmor when they can't even protect themselves? Now that my friend is a damn shame. Don't you get it? Morrowind is the perfect Asylum for those who are in the crosshairs of the Thalmor. The Empire has no jurisdiction over Morrowind and neither does the Thalmor.

Melborn was seeking temporary shelter in a hold (Stormcloak territory) that has zero Imperial influence. The Thalmor can't just barge in Windhelm without a bloody fight in hand whereas Solitude they can walk right in, and arrest anyone that they please due to the WGC.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The classes of TES list mages and Battlemages as different classes. Mages do not have armor as a skill they are trained in, Some mages have training, but they are battlemages or spellswords, not mages, who focus almost solely on magic skills.

Why lump them all together when Mage is not the same as a healer, or a battlemage, or even a nightblade? Magic-user=/=mage. Mage is a TYPE of magic user sure, but not all magic users are mages.

Classes are just pre-selected skills you can choose for your character. They don't apply much since anyone can do whatever, if you actually notice the Battlemage doesn't have heavy armor as a skill either.

Mages focus on magic skills, yes. Battlemages focus on the School of Destruction, Illusionists focus on Illusion, Alterationists on Alteration. Conjurer on Conjuration. Not every Mage actually studies every single school of magic in lore.

Healer is an occupation, they are Mages who use what knowledge they have on restoration to benefit society or treat wounded.

They're all Mages. Regardless of how they choose to use their skills, being a Mage simply isn't staring at scrolls and dusty old books in a dirty robe and not caring about anything. Being a Battlemage isn't simply wearing heavy armor with a touch of magic on the side, a Battlemage is someone who has spent years studying Destruction, reading dusty books and scrolls too. They also fight in wars, same with other Mages of different schools.

 

[Jeremius]

The classes of TES list mages and Battlemages as different classes. Mages do not have armor as a skill they are trained in, Some mages have training, but they are battlemages or spellswords, not mages, who focus almost solely on magic skills.

Why lump them all together when Mage is not the same as a healer, or a battlemage, or even a nightblade? Magic-user=/=mage. Mage is a TYPE of magic user sure, but not all magic users are mages.

Classes are just pre-selected skills you can choose for your character. They don't apply much since anyone can do whatever, if you actually notice the Battlemage doesn't have heavy armor as a skill either.

Mages focus on magic skills, yes. Battlemages focus on the School of Destruction, Illusionists focus on Illusion, Alterationists on Alteration. Conjurer on Conjuration. Not every Mage actually studies every single school of magic in lore.

Healer is an occupation, they are Mages who use what knowledge they have on restoration to benefit society or treat wounded.

They're all Mages. Regardless of how they choose to use their skills, being a Mage simply isn't staring at scrolls and dusty old books in a dirty robe and not caring about anything. Being a Battlemage isn't simply wearing heavy armor with a touch of magic on the side, a Battlemage is someone who has spent years studying Destruction, reading dusty books and scrolls too. They also fight in wars, same with other Mages of different schools.

A battlemage is a soldier-scholar, not just someone who studies destruction. A mage who studies destruction, but not any soldier/warrior skills is not a battlemage, because he does not train any soldier skills.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Do you honestly believe that the Empire can protect those against the Thalmor when they can't even protect themselves? Now that my friend is a damn shame. Don't you get it? Morrowind is the perfect Asylum for those who are in the crosshairs of the Thalmor. The Empire has no jurisdiction over Morrowind and neither does the Thalmor.

Melborn was seeking temporary shelter in a hold (Stormcloak territory) that has zero Imperial influence. The Thalmor can't just barge in Windhelm without a bloody fight in hand whereas Solitude they can walk right in, and arrest anyone that they please due to the WGC.

I doubt anyone can protect people from the Thalmor, not unless the Empire destroys the Aldmeri Dominion. Morrowind isn't perfect, Malborn just mentions it will be as safe as anywhere.

The Thalmor have been "barging" into the Empire for well over a hundred years, Raijin. Do you honestly believe a bunch of militia (Legion or Stormcloaks) are going to be skilled enough to know who is or isn't a Thalmor? Not every Thalmor walks around in their Nazi outfit. They have eyes and ears all over the place. "No, you can't ever be too paranoid where the Thalmor is concerned." - Malborn

When have the Thalmor ever cared for jurisdiction? You think they'll be "Oh, we don't have official authority... Guess we'll move on."