Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Templar of Talos]

What has Balgruuf done that is so wonderful to skyrim to deserve the rightful title of High King may I ask? So far all he done is slouch on his throne all day with the same ole line. He has done nothing to deserve the title. Just because he was the first jarl to discover the dragonborn doesn't mean that hes qualified. After all hes in the pockets of the empire so if he was to become High king nothing would change. The empire would still have their filthy hands on skyrim.

He cares about the people of Whiterun (the entire hold, not the city) more than the other Jarls do, he proved this by sending troops to Riverwood AS SOON as Dovahkiin informed him aboutt he dragon, ignoring Avenicci's political bullplops about the Jarl of Falkreath seeing it as a provocation. He treats his guardsmen well ("Well done, head back to the barracks for some food and rest, you've earned it"). He stands firm by his words by allowing you to capture a dragon in his palace despite the obvious dangers. Throughout the main quest he prove to be invaluable. He'd make a great high king if you ask me, better than Ulfric or Torygg. As for the Empire, I don't think he would take the Empire's rule as lightly as Torygg, he would have questioned the Thalmor's prescence in Skyrim maybe drawn up an agreement to keep them out of Skyrim and I do believe he would have stuck to his guns.

And as for the 'Pulling a Gun during a Sword fight' remark. Yes, it was unfair, as I stated in my last post. But again, Toyrgg accepted the challenge. It's common knowlege that Ulfric was trained in the use of a Thu'um, if Toyrrg had any common sense he would have declined. Toyrrg was a weak High King, weather or not he admired Ulfric or not, Ulfric saw him as a liability and followed Nord traditions to have him removed.

I never said the use of the Shout was fair... I personally do support the Stormcloaks, I just don't support Ulfric. Whats one man to a cause though?

 

[Epic Keith]

Yes but he also mentioned dark elfs

Dark elves living in WIndhelm or in Eastmarcg, not caravans

 

[Epic Keith]

He cares about the people of Whiterun (the entire hold, not the city) more than the other Jarls do, he proved this by sending troops to Riverwood AS SOON as Dovahkiin informed him aboutt he dragon, ignoring Avenicci's political bullplops about the Jarl of Falkreath seeing it as a provocation. He treats his guardsmen well ("Well done, head back to the barracks for some food and rest, you've earned it"). He stands firm by his words by allowing you to capture a dragon in his palace despite the obvious dangers. Throughout the main quest he prove to be invaluable. He'd make a great high king if you ask me, better than Ulfric or Torygg. As for the Empire, I don't think he would take the Empire's rule as lightly as Torygg, he would have questioned the Thalmor's prescence in Skyrim maybe drawn up an agreement to keep them out of Skyrim and I do believe he would have stuck to his guns.

And as for the 'Pulling a Gun during a Sword fight' remark. Yes, it was unfair, as I stated in my last post. But again, Toyrgg accepted the challenge. It's common knowlege that Ulfric was trained in the use of a Thu'um, if Toyrrg had any common sense he would have declined. Toyrrg was a weak High King, weather or not he admired Ulfric or not, Ulfric saw him as a liability and followed Nord traditions to have him removed.

I never said the use of the Shout was fair... I personally do support the Stormcloaks, I just don't support Ulfric. Whats one man to a cause though?

You just blew me away. You are right, Balgruuf should be High King. Even if Ulfric is power-hungry stuff is true, I will support Balgruuf

 

[Flint firestorm]

To call torygg weak compared to Ulfric and Balgruuf is unfair as both are more experienced and older then he is. When I talked to him he seem very honorable. With time he could have led a united free skyrim

 

[Jeremius]

anyone think that the Whole Civil War is nothing but a political stunt meant to make the empire Stronger and if on the legion's side, the ulfric you kill is not the real ulfric, or if on Ulfric's side, the whole secession from skyrim never actually happen but proves to the legion that they can fight the Thalmor?

 

[Templar of Talos]

To call torygg weak compared to Ulfric and Balgruuf is unfair as both are more experienced and older then he is. When I talked to him he seem very honorable. With time he could have led a united free skyrim

Harsh, yes maybe. Unfair, no certainly not. The Imperial rule throughout Tamriel has always been governed to favor the Empire, and in the Empire's current weak state (after the Great War) it makes sense from their point of view to choose a weak ruler for Skyrim so they can maintain control of a source of strong troops (the Nords) and plentiful supplies. A few back handers (bribes) to some of the other Jarls to vote Toyrgg in as high king and BAM! You have control of a country. The Empire then has free reign to do whatever they want. Titus Mede was also weak. You think Uriel Septim would have allowed the Aldmeri Dominion to draw up the white-gold concordat? Septim would have slain the Thalmor ambassador where he stood.

The Empire was shot through the heart at the end of the Oblivion crisis, and has been bleeding to death for the last 170 years, then was stabbed in the heart again by the Aldmeri Dominion. There is no way the Empire will recover, with or without a Stormcloak rebellion. The best thing that could have happened to Skyrim was for Toyrgg to have stepped down, allowed Bulgruuf to assume the postition of High King, put Ulfric in charge of the war effort and fought as a united front for independance.

 

[Epic Keith]

To call torygg weak compared to Ulfric and Balgruuf is unfair as both are more experienced and older then he is. When I talked to him he seem very honorable. With time he could have led a united free skyrim

If he was inexperienced, why did he accept the role of High King, when there were loads of men out there with experience

 

[Epic Keith]

The Empire died with the Septims, but you are right, Balgruuf should be High King, make Skyrim independent, make Ulfric Head of Military

 

[Flint firestorm]

If an empire that included skyrim and two other Provences could not beat them what makes you think one provense(the weakest one) will beat them? The thalmar want a divide empire. It would be so much easier to conquer.

 

[Epic Keith]

If an empire that included skyrim and two other Provences could not beat them what makes you think one provense(the weakest one) will beat them? The thalmar want a divide empire. It would be so much easier to conquer.

If the 'province' is Skyrim, you should remember Nords are the strongest warriors in all of Tamriel, as said by Balgruuf himself.

If Hammerfell could defeat the elves why not Skyrim??

 

[Flint firestorm]

That was a defensive war. Also the redguards have mages in their army. Whereas skyrim does not. They are better warriors then the nords. The elven armies were already weakened.

 

[Epic Keith]

That was a defensive war. Also the redguards have mages in their army. Whereas skyrim does not. They are better warriors then the nords. The elven armies were already weakened.

Skyrim has the College, if AD invade, they will be forced to fight, there would be no way they would let the Thalmor in their college after the Magnus Incident

And as Balgruuf as High King, he would be smart enough NOT to invade Summerset Isle. If the Thalmor come, they will have a bad time, especially with the terrain and weather problems

 

[Flint firestorm]

No they won't. The south has near no problems. The collage is neutral and has a very small amount of mages. Also you said put ulfric in charge of the military.

 

[Janus3003]

If the 'province' is Skyrim, you should remember Nords are the strongest warriors in all of Tamriel, as said by Balgruuf himself.

And guys with brown hair are the strongest warriors in real life. You should remember this because I said so myself.

 

[DWFII]

What part of any act resulting in physical harm or injury to a sovereign don't you get? Please point out the part where it says "except for duels.' You can't because it doesn't exist. It's High Treason regardless of whatever non-existent addendum to the the law you're mind is fabricating. Consent of the sovereign is irrelevant.

What part of "independence" Don't you get? What part of "having your own nation and your own laws" don't you get? What part of "revolution/rebellion" don't you get?

Was George Washington or Samuel Adams or Thomas Payne obliged, in any way, to obey the laws of King George?

Each one of those men (and all those I haven't dredged up from my memory) knew that in signing the Declaration of Independence...heck, before that--just in writing tracts and or taking sides...they were signing their own death warrants.

That's something that is often overlooked. Ulfric declares independence from the Empire and the oppression and tyranny it represents (literally) by killing Torygg. He is saying "If you (both the Empire and the High King) cannot protect the people and secure our natural rights and freedoms, you have no legitimate right to govern us nor to our respect." We will secure our own laws and Traditions and our leaders. No more puppet kings.

And in doing so...Ulfric knows that his life is forfeit. He puts his life on the line to win Skyrim's independence. In Celtic Tradition the High King is the "sacrifice for the people." Win or lose, Ulfric is the legitimate High King of Skyrim.

 

[DWFII]

It's ok for the Dragonborn to use the Thu'um but not for Ulfric?

It's not like there is any law against using the Thu'um if you are NOT a Greybeard. Ulfric left them for the war. He didn't want to shout at the sky while his people died!
Using the shout was completely legit

I agree. Esp the part about the Dragonborn. Too many people see the the Dragonborn as a privileged character who can bully his way through he countryside using a skill/power that no one he encounters has equal access to. f you want a definition of "unfair" or "murder" look no further.

 

[DWFII]

IT WAS A DUEL WITH THE HIGH KING! It's completely different.

Says you...but by what reasoning?

 

[Flint firestorm]

To be legitamet he has oto be voted in by the moot

 

[DWFII]

America had strong LEADERS. Plural. The Founding Fathers are what shaped this country and formed the government. It wasn't one man, but many. And George Washington didn't even want to be President, but took it anyway. Smart men know that power can easily corrupt. Seriously, don't compare Washington to Ulfric. The fact you did is insulting.

Ulfric says repeatedly that if he could withdraw from the concerns of the world he would. He even says he doesn't want to be High king...

 

[Jeremius]

just being strong does not a good ruler make. in my opinion Elisif would make a better high queen because she seems more willing to compromise than Ulfric is. the guy seems to be more war-mongering than any other Jarl. Even Jarl B-of-whiterun makes a better high king....